In this episode, we talk with Andy Chan, Vice President for Innovation and Career Development at Wake Forest University. We ask Andy about the ways vocation and career overlap, as well as how we might help students rethink success. The provocative title of his TED talk, “Why Career Services Must Die,” is a rallying cry for how the academy can better integrate questions of career and purpose throughout all aspects of the college experience. For Andy, innovation is not just about novelty for its own sake, but about “creating value in new ways that meets the needs of those you serve, and also aligns with who you are and what you value.” Sharing some significant moments in his own vocational journey, Andy emphasizes the importance of “situational mentors” along the way. Andy helps us see that the categories of mission, core values, and our students’ passions can help us reimagine more instrumentalist models of “career services” as forms of vocational exploration and discernment.